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Topic: Quality of staff lines when displayed. (Read 465 times) |
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ANdre_B
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I have worked with Jorge on the second part of his append
on Jun 15th, 2019, 2:01am, jorge grillo wrote:  1 (..) Harmony 9.9.0 x 32.
2- Now (Harmony 9.9.0 x 32) the lines of the pentagrames (staves) look double, as on written ...
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Apparently, the quality of the displayed staff lines vary a lot.
He used to have a nice result with a scale of 130 in 981e, and it's worse in 990c.
(continued in further posts)
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André Baeck, de retour en Belgique après 12 ans passés dans le Gard.
Windows 11, HA 997e (et précédents)
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ANdre_B
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(Continuation)
The problem does not show that much on that image, but I will make a few more to explain better.
When enlarging the image, the différences can be seen, mainly between the 3th and 4th line (counting from the bottom) and the other three:
Actually the staff lines are made of 8 narrow lines, each with its own shade of grey (not 50...) including black.
The differences are sometimes visible at normal zoom level, sometimes not -- sometimes look like a dual line.
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| « Last Edit: Jun 20th, 2019, 5:13pm by ANdre_B » |
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André Baeck, de retour en Belgique après 12 ans passés dans le Gard.
Windows 11, HA 997e (et précédents)
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ANdre_B
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Re: Quality of staff lines when displayed.
« Reply #2 on: Jun 20th, 2019, 5:23pm » |
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(continued)
I understand that drawing these lines involve arithmetics where exact calculations need rounding at an integer pixel level.
Do you think that these differences/approximations are the "state of the art" and that we have to live with that, adjusting the HA display scale to what fits us best?
Considering that a new version can improve the result somewhere and worsen it elsewhere?
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André Baeck, de retour en Belgique après 12 ans passés dans le Gard.
Windows 11, HA 997e (et précédents)
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Gilbert Rouquie
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Re: Quality of staff lines when displayed.
« Reply #3 on: Jun 24th, 2019, 11:17pm » |
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I too have noticed that staff lines became blurred in Harmony Assistant 9.9.0 ( 32 and 64 bits, base distributions and fixes c and d).
I regressed Harmony Assistant to 9.8.1e and the same staff lines were sharp again but unequally separated.
It looks to me as a change in the rounding logic of the display of HA 9.9 which blurred the staff lines at their correct position instead of displaying sharp lines at a wrong position.
I am afraid my eyes prefer the irregular spacing to the blur.
What do you prefer ?
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ANdre_B
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Re: Quality of staff lines when displayed. ³E
« Reply #4 on: Jun 26th, 2019, 8:21am » |
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The quality of the lines depends on the "Symbol Size/Taille des Symboles" setting for the staff, and the "Scaling/Échelle" factor in the Windows menu.
When the target size between two staff lines is an integer multiple of the target line thickness, often 1 pixel, the line is drawn solid black one one pixel size. If it isn't, the line is formed of two or three grey lines (of different shades) to give the impression of a line at the right position. But these multiple grey lines can give the impression of a duplicate or thicker line.
In 981, the line was always a solid black one, but eventually drawn one pixel higher or lower as the target, giving the impression or variables interlines.
In any case, several combinations of the wanted size and the scaling factor give integers, so that the lines look nice (one solid black pixel line).
For instance, for a symbol size of 72, the lines are nice with a scale of 100, 116, 132, 150, 166...
I'm currently searching the parameters for correct combinations of scale and size which end up with nice lines. Actually, it should be a list of "good size" values for any significant scale setting, which is the needed approach when some staves are small, medium, etc.
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André Baeck, de retour en Belgique après 12 ans passés dans le Gard.
Windows 11, HA 997e (et précédents)
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PaulL
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Re: Quality of staff lines when displayed.
« Reply #5 on: Jul 2nd, 2019, 6:27pm » |
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I would be more concerned with print quality (and exported image quality) than with the view on-screen. There have been certain irregularities with the screen view in different versions. When the printed copy is okay, I don't care. What really bothers me, however, is when the screen view is fine, but the print-out is not.
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Le coeur a ses raisons, que la Raison ne connaît point.
Paul Littlefield, retired Church musician
HA+VS+PdfToMusic Linux Mint 21.3 Cinnamon
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ANdre_B
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Re: Quality of staff lines when displayed.
« Reply #6 on: Jul 3rd, 2019, 6:27pm » |
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I think that Paul is right, the appearance on the screen is of much less importance than the quality of the lines when printed.
Nevertheless, if it can easily be managed or cirmcumvented, why not?
Also, the quality on the screen gives the user a (false) image that the bad quality would also be there on the print-out.
I had a look at the maths behind this, I could understand the current logic, and there are couples of "good values", e.g. in Jorge's file I'd recommend, with a scale of 130, a "default size" of 83. Or, keeping the default size to 72, a scale of 133.
I had a try at setting "good sizes" with a script, but I have to give up. It's rather easy when all staves have the same "symbol size", but much less when there are staves with various sizes. The formulas are not that linear, the matter is full with roundings or "floorings".
If anybody would like a set of "good sizes" for his own scores, I would be glad to help in specific cases - if I remain alive and well.
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André Baeck, de retour en Belgique après 12 ans passés dans le Gard.
Windows 11, HA 997e (et précédents)
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jorge grillo
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Re: Quality of staff lines when displayed.
« Reply #7 on: Jul 4th, 2019, 9:06pm » |
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on Jul 3rd, 2019, 6:27pm, Andre_B wrote:
Also, the quality on the screen gives the user a (false) image that the bad quality would also be there on the print-out.
in Jorge's file I'd recommend, with a scale of 130, a "default size" of 83. Or, keeping the default size to 72, a scale of 133. |
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Absolutely true...
1- Double lines on the screen may suggest a bad impression.
2- Adjustment of 133% (Suggestion of Andre_B) has been correct and provides a solution to the graphic problem. (Again: Tnxs Andre )
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♫♪☼♪♫https://www.facebook.com/jorgeeduardo.grillo.3
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