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Sep 23rd, 2019, 1:09pm 
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scurtis
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Greyed-out rests  
« on: Aug 9th, 2019, 11:42am »
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Hello,
 
I'm not sure whether this relates to PDFToMusic or Melody Assistant, but I've used PDFToMusic to process a piece of music, then exported it to Melody Assistant.
 
I need to edit the piece, but there are greyed-out (and even pink) rests that I can't delete or do anything with.
 
Can someone explain what the grey and pink bits mean, please, and is there anything I can do with them?
 
Thanks,
 
Sue.
 
PS - Olivier, the 64-bit version of PDF is now working on my laptop - thank you. (I had trouble with the 32-bit version crashing before.)
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Andre_B
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Re: Greyed-out rests  
« Reply #1 on: Aug 9th, 2019, 2:14pm »
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Greyed-out rests are generally the indication of an uncompleted measure, and it is common in "work in progress", but not in a pdf exchanged with others.  
 
 
I haven't seen colored rests yet!
 
 
Best would be to attach this PDF.  
 
 
Not sure it matters, which is your OS?
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André Baeck, Belge vivant dans le Gard
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scurtis
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Re: Greyed-out rests   myrImage.JPG
« Reply #2 on: Aug 9th, 2019, 3:00pm »
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Hi Andre,
 
I think the pink rests are the incomplete measure, so that explains that.
 
Attached are two screen grabs** - one is from the PDF that was processed, and one (with the greyed rests) is the equivalent section from Melody Assistant.
 
My main problem is that this is an anacrusis (the first bar has fewer beats) - PDFToMusic has decided that this bar has 2 beats (although the display is still 3/4), whereas it only actually has one. If I change the bar to 1 beat, it messes up the lower stave, because of the rests there.
 
Sorry this is difficult to explain, but if I can remove or change some of the greyed rests I can sort it out.
 
Thanks,
 
Sue.
 
**Ah! I can only attach one file, so here's the Melody Assistant one. The greyed out rests do not appear in the original PDF.
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Andre_B
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Re: Greyed-out rests  
« Reply #3 on: Aug 9th, 2019, 3:05pm »
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Thanks to the screen shot. But it's the PDF itself which is most interesting to reproduce and analyze.  
 
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André Baeck, Belge vivant dans le Gard
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scurtis
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Re: Greyed-out rests  
« Reply #4 on: Aug 9th, 2019, 4:44pm »
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Can I remove the PDF from the post when you've got it please? It's been paid for and is not for general distribution.
 
Sue.
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bubu42
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Re: Greyed-out rests  
« Reply #5 on: Aug 9th, 2019, 4:51pm »
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Well, I've had a try at the .pdf.  
First of all, PDFTM got lost in the very first bar with the tempo indication (one dotted half = 40) and made the first bar a 2/4 beat, adding a second bar with a 1/4 time. It might be easier to delete bar#1 altogether and re-type the quarter note (F) in the organ part (upper staff).
As for the greyed rests, they have been made invisible in the process (probably to fill in the measure). Since there might other invisible rests here and the, I'd suggest you select all (Ctrl+A) and do Edit>Appearance>General. In the edit window, look for  the "invisible rests" option and select the "no" button.
Now, there are quite a few rests in the merged staves (organ left-hand, voice 2) filling the empty bars. Personally, I'd delete them making sure that the "limit editing to one bar" is checked in the options menu (or else the music can be nudged to the left for this staff)
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bubu42
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Re: Greyed-out rests  
« Reply #6 on: Aug 9th, 2019, 4:54pm »
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on Aug 9th, 2019, 4:44pm, scurtis wrote:
Can I remove the PDF from the post when you've got it please? It's been paid for and is not for general distribution.

Just wait a little so that other people can take a look at it (Andre, JP, Oliveira and a few others are quite active these days)
I've downloaded the .pdf file but don't worry : I'll delete it from my hard disk as soon as the problem is solved.  
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Re: Greyed-out rests   lord_shepherd01.jpg
« Reply #7 on: Aug 9th, 2019, 4:58pm »
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Here is what the first page looks like on my system (Harmony Assistant, page mode, control handles on)
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Andre_B
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Re: Greyed-out rests  
« Reply #8 on: Aug 9th, 2019, 5:00pm »
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Hello Sue,
 
Much is disturbed by the tempo change on top, that half note is brought into the score, and makes of course the pick-up bar too long.  
 
Perhaps that can be improved, but I don't know yet.  
 
 
What I suggest is  
1. to ignore it (you can later set the tempo in MA):  
Open the "Correction Menu", and untick "Allow Tempi" before you open the pdf-score.  
 
 
2. Export and go to MA. The first bar will internally be 1:4 but display 3:4, but that is usual.  
Most of the shadow(grey) rests will have disappeared; one remains on the pick-up bar of the second organ staff, but that is normal, it will become a true rest.  
 
3. There will still be shadow rests allover the organ staves, but they aren't really important. That's since piano/organ staves are multivoices, but the number of voices vary.  
They will not show in a printout, but you can eliminate them by "flattening" the organ scores, as follows:  
 
 
On the MA display, there are a few little icons at the very left of each staff. The top triangle is white (means single voice) for the singers' staves, but mixed blue/red for the organ staff. Click on these triangles, then select "flatten all voices"; this takes several seconds, then the triangle becomes white and the shadow rests are gone. Do the same on the second organ staff (it takes even more seconds since there are more voices).      
 
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André Baeck, Belge vivant dans le Gard
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scurtis
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Re: Greyed-out rests  
« Reply #9 on: Aug 9th, 2019, 5:43pm »
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Thanks both very much for your replies.
 
Andre, I tried ignoring the tempo, but I still got the two 2/4 and 1/4 bars at the beginning (the only difference was that there was no tempo mark at the top). Strange it didn't work for me (I have got the latest version installed). I will do the flattening, though.
 
Bubu, I can now see the invisible rests. I will delete the first bar and see how it goes.
 
I will delete the PDF above in an hour or two. Let me know if anyone else needs to try it.
 
I have tried more complex pieces with PDFTM in the past which didn't produce anything I thought usable, but with this new knowledge, I might try them again.
 
Thanks again,
 
Sue.
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bubu42
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Re: Greyed-out rests  
« Reply #10 on: Aug 9th, 2019, 7:28pm »
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Good.  
I just wanted to add my pinch of salt to André's suggestion. Flattening merged staves is a very good solution (there seem to be as many as 5 voices in the organ parts). However, generally speaking, I find it very handy to have two merged staves on each manual staff, as I find it easier to manage notes that have different durations (and stem directions) on the same staff.
I hope you'll manage to get the score right. If needed, we can offer more help. Just ask !  
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Andre_B
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Re: Greyed-out rests  
« Reply #11 on: Aug 9th, 2019, 8:19pm »
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on Aug 9th, 2019, 5:43pm, scurtis wrote:

Andre, I tried ignoring the tempo, but I still got the two 2/4 and 1/4 bars at the beginning (the only difference was that there was no tempo mark at the top). Strange it didn't work for me

 
Bubu, did you try it; opening the PDF from within HA, or manually by opening the PDF in  PDFtoMusic, then the .myr in HA.  
 
I tried both at first, I handn't the double bar problem in the combined call, while I had it with the separate calls. But the standard list of correction parameters is slightly different;  
 
Sue, would you try opening MA, then import/Adobe PDF   ?  
 
I have checked, the direct call is also available in Melody Assistant.
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André Baeck, Belge vivant dans le Gard
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scurtis
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Re: Greyed-out rests  
« Reply #12 on: Aug 9th, 2019, 8:30pm »
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Ha! Never knew I could call it from within MA!
 
But no change - it has got the tempo mark, so it hasn't taken notice of PDFTM setting to ignore that (is there somewhere in MA to change that setting?), and still got the two initial bars.
 
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Re: Greyed-out rests  
« Reply #13 on: Aug 9th, 2019, 10:54pm »
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@Sue
I opened the .myr file generated by PDFTM and tried to make it more acceptable. I addressed the tempo mark problem in bar #1, removed free objects (actually, the page footers) and left all the line and page breaks as they were.  
I could send you the .myr file if you wish, but I can't do it on the forum for the copyright reasons you mentioned earlier. I can't attach any file to the instant messaging of the forum... So, if you send me an instant message (just click on my username and follow the link) with an e-mail address, I'll send you back the file.
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Re: Greyed-out rests  
« Reply #14 on: Aug 10th, 2019, 9:08am »
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IM sent.
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