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Topic: Octave-transposing Instruments (Read 491 times) |
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Tony Deff
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As we age, how easy it is to become confused at the subtleties of H.A. 
I had created a staff assigned to a Clarinet in Bb, then changed the instrument to a Bass clarinet in Bb … and became confused.
To get the required sound, notes had to be written an octave lower than expected and resulted in "out of range" warnings.
My Orchestration reference book shows written notes for Horn and Bass Clarinet (A below), sounding lower (as B).
However, comparing staves for Clarinet and Bass Clarinet (Options > Show transposed score), there was no visual difference: both showed a transposition of two semitones.
This caused me to check the Related Instrument: sure enough, the transposition for the Bass Clarinet was -2 (instead of -14).
This is the same problem that caught JP out : Supprimer un bruit
Quote:| When an instrument is changed using the left margin black icon or Instruments menu, the transposition is not automatically changed. |
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This makes sense if the same recorded sound might be assigned to an instrument in different keys.
If you change a Horn in F for a Clarinet in Bb, you will get many discordant notes!
However, H.A. still showed no visual transposition difference between Clarinet and Bass Clarinet:
both showed a transposition of two semitones.
Of course not! The purpose of octave-transposition is to save writing many ledger-lines .
Octave-transposing instruments (guitar or piccolo) display no difference - we must remember to write an octave higher or lower.
A bass clarinet combines both key-transposition (displayed) plus octave-transposition (only shown in the yellow help window, if enabled.)
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| « Last Edit: Jan 25th, 2020, 3:24pm by Tony Deff » |
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Anglophone, HA 64 Win.10.
An expert is one who knows more and more about less and less until he knows absolutely everything about nothing.
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ANdre_B
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Re: Octave-transposing Instruments
« Reply #1 on: Jan 25th, 2020, 5:15pm » |
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Hello Tony,
I don't think the culprit is HA, but the bad habits of the engravers and instrument players.
While the clarinet in Bb in a transposing instrument sounding two semitones lower than notated - to match fingering - the Bb bass clarinet is transposing by 14 semitones.
A sound logic would require the bass clarinet to be notated with a 8vb G-clef - and transposing -2 .
But this is not the habit, so that one needs to specify -14.
The "name" of the instrument in "Staff Instrument Editing" determine the sound quality, but does not alter the pitch.
The same problem happens with guitar - notaded as an (unmarked 8vb) G-clef, the double-bass with an (unmarked 8vb) F-clef, the piccolo flute with a (generally unmarked 8va) G-Key, saxophones and most brass instruments.
Put them a little 8 below the clef, they will be hurt and say "we know")!
Up to recently (early 19th) scores for Tenor voices, rewritten from a Tenor clef, had an unmarked 8vb clef.
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André Baeck, de retour en Belgique après 12 ans passés dans le Gard.
Windows 11, HA 997e (et précédents)
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Tony Deff
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Assigned transposition
« Reply #2 on: Jan 28th, 2020, 10:43am » |
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In general, Staves > Add staff will automatically set the required transposition for the selected instrument.
However, H.A. allocates both Soprano and Bass saxophones (both Bb) a transposition of -2
(Tenor & Baritone saxophones will thus sound lower than the Bass).
The transposition of the Bass saxophone needs to be manually changed (black microphone icon in left margin) to -26
(two octaves and two semitones below the written note).
Also, the titanic Contrabass saxophone is allocated a transposition of only -9 , same as the little Sopranino (both Eb).
However, my reference book states that neither is in "current" (1964) use.
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| « Last Edit: Jan 28th, 2020, 10:43am by Tony Deff » |
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Anglophone, HA 64 Win.10.
An expert is one who knows more and more about less and less until he knows absolutely everything about nothing.
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ANdre_B
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Re: Octave-transposing Instruments
« Reply #3 on: Jan 28th, 2020, 11:21am » |
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When Editing (microphone icon) a bass saxophone as defined with "add staff", the edition panel Indeed show a -2, but says it's a tenor sax. Lower saxes are not mentioned.
This may be related.
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André Baeck, de retour en Belgique après 12 ans passés dans le Gard.
Windows 11, HA 997e (et précédents)
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