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Topic: Update Virtual Singer and Fixing the Most Prominent Issues (Read 5752 times) |
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Arietta
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Re: Update Virtual Singer and Fixing the Most Prominent Issues
« Reply #30 on: Mar 20th, 2021, 6:14am » |
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on Mar 18th, 2021, 1:23pm, Daniel Frouvelle wrote:
Bonjour Sylvain, de mon côté j'ai ce problème : effectivement les fichiers ont la même durée mais (du moins en 48khz chez moi) il manque les dernières notes, ça veut dire que la musique joue plus lentement:
 Ci-dessus l'image de la fin de la musique : en haut le fichier 44.1khz la fin de la musique est OK. En bas le fichier 48khz. on voit la musique décalée vers la droite.
J'ai fait part de ce problème aux frères Guillion mais je n'ai pas de réponse à ce jour.
Amistats, Danièl. |
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Je suis désolé, mon français n'est pas bien. Mais j'ai aussi envoyé un message a les frères Guillion. As tu une réponse? Je n'ai avoir une réponse. Sont-ils toujours actifs avec Virtual Singer?
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Sylvain Machefert
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Re: Update Virtual Singer and Fixing the Most Prominent Issues
« Reply #31 on: Mar 20th, 2021, 5:44pm » |
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For the delay, did you look in score menu > global digital effect (or something like that).
I didn't wrote to Myriad team about this bug, I'll do when I'll encounter the problem, i.e. when I'll reproduce what you get and Danièl get.
They are still active on VS, and many many things. They don't have to reply to all emails in short time.
I have plenty of email without answer, but I know they store them and reply or ask more details when they start to work on the problem / suggestion I made.
I'll go back to testing later, I'm rebuilding my computer after a disk crash.
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| « Last Edit: Mar 20th, 2021, 5:45pm by Sylvain Machefert » |
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PaulL
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Re: Update Virtual Singer and Fixing the Most Prominent Issues
« Reply #32 on: Mar 20th, 2021, 11:56pm » |
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There used to be a setting that allowed a delay in either the digital or the MIDI output, so that they could play properly together. Where is it these days? I haven't needed it in years, so my memory is failing me at the moment.
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Paul Littlefield, retired Church musician
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Sylvain Machefert
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Re: Update Virtual Singer and Fixing the Most Prominent Issues
« Reply #33 on: Mar 21st, 2021, 9:21am » |
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The delay for syncing MIDI and digital (i.e. sound base, VS) is in hardware setup, or output setup.
But in our cases, there is no MIDI, it's instrument (gold base or GMSEBase) output vs VS output.
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Daniel Frouvelle
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Re: Update Virtual Singer and Fixing the Most Prominent Issues
« Reply #34 on: Mar 21st, 2021, 10:09am » |
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Bonjour Sylvain, je viens de faire un 3e essai sur un autre ordinateur,win10 cette fois. Export 44 et 48 du même fichier, puis je les ouvre simultanément avec audacity, même problème... 
Amitats, Danièl
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| « Last Edit: Mar 21st, 2021, 10:10am by Daniel Frouvelle » |
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Oliveira
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Re: Update Virtual Singer and Fixing the Most Prominent Issues
« Reply #35 on: Mar 21st, 2021, 11:34am » |
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on Mar 20th, 2021, 11:56pm, PaulL wrote:| There used to be a setting that allowed a delay in either the digital or the MIDI output, so that they could play properly together. Where is it these days? I haven't needed it in years, so my memory is failing me at the moment. |
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Menu / Configuration / Digital ouput configuration.
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PaulL
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Re: Update Virtual Singer and Fixing the Most Prominent Issues
« Reply #36 on: Mar 21st, 2021, 4:02pm » |
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Gracias, Pepe!
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Arietta
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I'm still trying to figure these delay issues but i'm going to try to see if it has anything to do with the final consonants. I'm "tuning" something in Japanese and no timing issues so far. But the next issue to discuss is audio level issues like peaking. Vowels sometimes recede and some vowels just destroy your speakers. I'm not aware if there are any settings to fix this issue. I haven't found any settings when looking through setting. Some vowels like "a" get sucked in like at 0:42. Then the "e" vowel usually peaks a lot like at 0:59. The peaking is worse when put into vocalshifter but that may be just an issue with that.
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Arietta
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Here is the "tuned" audio. Where ever VS starts to peak or recede, it is accentuated in vocalshifter, where I tuned VS. This could just be an issue with vocalshifter's scanning but since it is an issue in VS, an audio leveling patch would be great.
For clarification, tuning means manipulating a vocal synthesizer to add more realism to make it more robotic.
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Choralia
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Re: Update Virtual Singer and Fixing the Most Prominent Issues
« Reply #39 on: Jul 18th, 2021, 12:38pm » |
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I think that I'm struggling with the same problem reported above, i.e., loss of synchronisation between vocal parts and instrumental parts.
I noticed this problem sometimes in the past, however it has literally exploded after I installed a SSD on my laptop. My desktop instead, which was originally equipped with a SSD, seems almost immune.
I think that the problem is related to the Virtual Singer cache. When you play a file for the first time, a notice "Computing X human voices" is shown for few seconds. The same notice is not shown again when you re-play the same file, supposedly because the first computation is saved in a cache for faster re-using it a later time. I think that the problem is originated by the fact that the cache is not always re-computed when it should be required to do that, for example when you change the "tempo". Using an older cache computed with a certain tempo in conjunction with instrumental parts played with a different tempo supposedly causes the loss of synchronisation.
I noticed the same effect when using fragments in order to change the pronunciation of some words: the pronunciation remains the same, unless I close Harmony Assistant and play the same file from scratch.
For the moment, this is just a conjecture. What's really strange is that it strongly depends on the computer, and especially that the problem showed up much more prominently on the same computer after installing the operating system and Harmony Assistant on a SSD.
I'm still trying to investigate this issue. I'm quite puzzled...
Max
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| « Last Edit: Jul 18th, 2021, 12:49pm by Choralia » |
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ANdre_B
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Re: Update Virtual Singer and Fixing the Most Prominent Issues
« Reply #40 on: Jul 18th, 2021, 3:03pm » |
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Hello Max,
in your example of a tempo change, is the succeeding "play" or "extract" where you notice the desynch combined with this tempo change into a script, or do you have experienced that when doing the two tasks manually?
I have noticed synchro problems due to multithread operation, which cannot be seen in manual operations, since these gives "plenty" of time to resynch the processes.
Second, when you mention differences on different computers, do they differ in the number of "cores". Now, multithread operation can happen also on single cores, particularly when I/O is involved. And with that respect, SSD can be different to "traditional" hard disks.
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Choralia
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Re: Update Virtual Singer and Fixing the Most Prominent Issues
« Reply #41 on: Jul 20th, 2021, 10:57pm » |
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Hi André, thank you for your tips.
I'm trying to narrow down the problem, as there are probably multiple issues that interact and confuse the picture.
I've found a procedure that is probably related to these issues, and works both on my laptop and on my desktop:
1) open a file that includes Virtual Singer voices and instrumental parts;
2) select a section of it that is not located at the beginning of the score;
3) play the section only;
4) when playing stops, select another section before the section you played before;
5) play the newly selected section.
On my computers, at step 5 instrumental parts are played, while voices remain silent.
My interpretation is that Virtual Singer computes the voices for the first selection, and then it tries to use the same cached voices when the second selection is made, however the cached voices do not contain the selected section and hence no voices are played. Virtual Singer should instead "forget" the first selection and re-compute the voices on the second selection.
This is just one instance. I'm trying to reproduce others, which may be related to the same issue.
I've reported this case to Olivier.
Max
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Arietta
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Re: Update Virtual Singer and Fixing the Most Prominent Issues
« Reply #42 on: Jul 21st, 2021, 1:09am » |
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on Jul 20th, 2021, 10:57pm, Choralia wrote: My interpretation is that Virtual Singer computes the voices for the first selection, and then it tries to use the same cached voices when the second selection is made, however the cached voices do not contain the selected section and hence no voices are played. Virtual Singer should instead "forget" the first selection and re-compute the voices on the second selection.
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Thank you Max for responding! I'm not sure if this is even the case, because even at first render it would be off time. It's been awhile since I've used VS besides for scripting Chinese, but I don't think issues got worse the more renders a track would have. The timing issues could be related to the caches but I'm not sure how caches work. If it is the case then it would have be relating to the final consonant fragments (Like the "n" in "den") Thank you for contacting Olivier! Hopefully these issues get resolved.
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| « Last Edit: Jul 21st, 2021, 1:11am by Arietta » |
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muddle
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Re: Update Virtual Singer and Fixing the Most Prominent Issues
« Reply #43 on: Jul 21st, 2021, 1:25pm » |
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Just a comment.
Yes, this is the way HA has always rendered virtual voices.
If you are always starting the 1st play from the start of the score it will produce a complete time synchronized render of the voice(s) to disk.
I edit virtual singers files hugely .. and as long as it is a change applied to the whole score or staff .. (e.g. all greater velocity or a change in voice type) you can hear it by starting play from the beginning.
However if many local edits and improvements to a virtual voice staff are involved, say half way through the score, it takes far too long to render it from the beginning over and over to hear the effect.
So I use the method of setting the' start play' triangle in the ruler to the place where the change occurs and preferably set a temporary ' last bar' to make the temporary rendered area as quickly handled as possible.
What happens then, is that HA starts a new set of rendered file(s) for the voice in that area/time stretch.
AND...It loses connection to any previous rendered files for the stave(s).
Indeed, if you have made a lot of edits, and then simply try to start play ( not using the start play triangle) from an earlier point you can sometimes hear strange un-sychronized voices as HA , apparently, trolls though the various memory strips it has used.
To hear the final result of such multiple edits you have to set the play mark either to an earlier point or to the start .
David L.
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| « Last Edit: Jul 21st, 2021, 6:23pm by muddle » |
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muddle
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Re: Update Virtual Singer and Fixing the Most Prominent Issues
« Reply #44 on: Jul 21st, 2021, 2:13pm » |
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Another thought... once you have the score singers rendered completely you can modify/edit it to some degree without rendering all the singers again.
The time slider can be used to move the 'play line' cursor to the editing place .
Use space to stop play,... do your edits .
The tricky bit is to use the time slider to move the play line to just before the edits to hear the effect.
It is not so easy as HA hides the time mark on the slider when play is stopped .
(Years ago, it used to stay visible at the position i think).
Anyway, by using the mouse on the time slider again you can move the 'play line' to just before the edit and when you release the mouse it will play without re-rendering the whole score.
There will be brief pause while HA writes your changes into the existing disk track.
However, it is quite sensitive. Some or a lot of editing can suddenly cause HA to recalculate everything.
sorry for long winded comments!
David L.
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| « Last Edit: Jul 21st, 2021, 6:40pm by muddle » |
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Fairytale_UNTUNED_audio.mp3