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Mar 29th, 2024, 1:54pm 
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   “pace” en GB english vs. “pace” in US english
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eduardo
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“pace” en GB english vs. “pace” in US english   Pace-_place.myr
« on: Mar 20th, 2021, 8:12pm »
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I realised that the word “pace” in US english sounds as only one syllable, but in GB english sounds as two syllables.  
However, interestingly the word “place” sounds as only one syllable in both languages…
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Re: “pace” en GB english vs. “pace” in US english  
« Reply #1 on: Mar 21st, 2021, 12:01am »
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It's not the only word that is correct in one and wrong in the other.  My work around is to put a SAMPA pronunciation in brackets after the word [#pleIs] (or something like that).
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Re: “pace” en GB english vs. “pace” in US english  
« Reply #2 on: Mar 21st, 2021, 5:19am »
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Indeed, Paul
 
Now, I have a vague remembrance that some words, in some kinds of pronounciaition, get a extra ending #I, so that they would sound like "pacy"... or perhaps just some acronyms. But no variation for "pace" found in Forvo.  
 
The issue here is less of two syllables, than to have two (non-consecutive) vowels.
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André Baeck, de retour en Belgique après 12 ans passés dans le Gard.
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eduardo
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Re: “pace” en GB english vs. “pace” in US english  
« Reply #3 on: Mar 21st, 2021, 6:49am »
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Thank you, André and Paul.
 
Yes , I've found some other words with different pronunciation in GB and US english, but the strange thing in this case is the two syllables in GB...
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Tony Deff
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Re: “pace” en GB english vs. “pace” in US english  
« Reply #4 on: Mar 21st, 2021, 10:04am »
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on Mar 20th, 2021, 8:12pm, eduardo wrote:
... the word “pace” in ... GB english sounds as two syllables.  
 However, interestingly the word “place” sounds as only one syllable in both languages…

This statement puzzles me; I have never heard pace pronounced in two syllables and cannot imagine how it would be.
In my dictionary these words are shown phonetically as peIs and pleIs respectively.
 
However, there is a second entry (of which I was unaware), pa.ce, derived from Latin and shown phonetically as peIsI.
The meaning is totally different and used to acknowledge politely someone who disagrees with the speaker or writer.


What fascinates me more is how words once common between languages diverge in meaning.
 
I was speaking to a French electronics engineer who said the job was "not enough interesting"  (he meant that it did not pay enough).  
I was later offered a "fresh" beer (Who wants stale beer?)
 
As for the US usage of the word already, as in "Get out of here, already", I am baffled.
 
In UK English, alternate means "every other one" and alternative indicates a choice.
(Our electricity network provides alternating current - there is no choice.)
 
In US English, alternate indicates a choice; what is their terminology for "every other one" or current that changes direction?
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Re: “pace” en GB english vs. “pace” in US english  
« Reply #5 on: Mar 21st, 2021, 11:37am »
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Englishmen are said drinking warm beer...  
 
The confusion with "fresh" comes with the common origin with "frais", now in French one will use "frais" as well to mean "recently brewed" and "quite cold".  
 
Your colleague will not have thought of "cool beer", since "in French", "cool" means nice, pleasant, comfortable - and even warm!  
 
And "caldo" isn't synonym of kalt!
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Re: “pace” en GB english vs. “pace” in US english  
« Reply #6 on: Mar 21st, 2021, 4:13pm »
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"Alternate" for alternative is wrong, even in U.S. English, but people don't care, so it will probably become standard in the U.S. in another few decades.
 
Pace, as an Anglicized Latin word of two syllables, would probably be more common in Britain than the U.S.  (It is used by scholars as a fancy way of saying, "with apologies to.")  So I think you've hit the nail on the head, my friend; I suspect someone was looking at the wrong dictionary entry when devising the British English pronunciation list for VS.  (The Church Latin pronunciation would be [#pa-tSeI] "PAH-chay," and the Classical Latin pronunciation would be [#pa-keI] "PAH-kay.")
 
The standard English pronunciation of certain Latin phrases, especially those that entered the language early, is not intuitive at all.
 
P.S.—I notice I read "pace" as "place" in my earlier post.  Sorry!
« Last Edit: Mar 21st, 2021, 4:14pm by PaulL » offline

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Re: “pace” en GB english vs. “pace” in US english  
« Reply #7 on: Mar 21st, 2021, 4:46pm »
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on Mar 21st, 2021, 4:13pm, PaulL wrote:
(The Church Latin pronunciation would be [#pa-tSeI] "PAH-chay," and the Classical Latin pronunciation would be [#pa-keI] "PAH-kay.")

IMHO, Church Latin pronunciation of "pace" is #patSe or #patSE, but never with a #I at the end.  
 
I wonder of these so frequent additions in English of a #I after a #e vowel, such as #peIs - when "Continental English would rather keep the sound clear - though long - as #pe:s; except the French who exaggerate the yod semivowel, say #peIIs ...
« Last Edit: Mar 21st, 2021, 4:47pm by ANdre_B » offline

André Baeck, de retour en Belgique après 12 ans passés dans le Gard.
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Re: “pace” en GB english vs. “pace” in US english  
« Reply #8 on: Mar 21st, 2021, 4:59pm »
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Having a pronunciation dictionary for HA correct and pleasing everybody is a benedictines' work, and I don't know many  knowing and HA and English.  
 
I think there should be a personal dictionary addendum... which could relieve us of adding tons of the same sampa correction for the same word in a piece, and for every verse and voice.  
 
I have worked twice on a script which can do many systematic changes to lyrics, based on a change list; I used it in a few pieces mainly to add sampa, and to put hyphens at the correct place.  
 
I would continue working on it quite soon, to make it "sellable" if I get a partner on this work. There is more in two heads han in one.
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André Baeck, de retour en Belgique après 12 ans passés dans le Gard.
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Re: “pace” en GB english vs. “pace” in US english  
« Reply #9 on: Mar 22nd, 2021, 5:33pm »
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You are right, Andre; English speakers turn almost every vowel into a diphthong, which is wrong for classical and Church Latin.
 
As someone who was a Benedictine for a few years, and who has a fairly decent working knowledge of English, I could probably help with that project of yours.  Send me a PM if you are interested.
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Paul Littlefield, retired Church musician

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