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Mar 28th, 2024, 7:26pm 
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   How to make the aspirant "h" more realistic?
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Tony Deff
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How to make the aspirant "h" more realistic?   Unrealistic_VS_aspirant.myr
« on: Apr 4th, 2021, 10:02am »
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In the attachment, the word "have" starts with an unpleasant hissing noise - can this be transformed to a quieter or more realistic aspirant?  
 
VS does not indicate which voice is being used, and I do not know whether you will hear the same one.  (English language is not specifically selected)
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Re: How to make the aspirant "h" more realistic?  
« Reply #1 on: Apr 4th, 2021, 10:45am »
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Hello Tony,  
I don't think it's a matter of aspiration. The velocity of the eight note is half that of the following quarter, and if you put both at 64 this strange impression disappears (to my ears, at least).  
 
What I find strange - but for the theory - is that you have written "ha-ve" which I would understand means that you want "ha" to be sung on the C and "ve" on the D - this seems to me unusual in English, but you know better.  
I would have written "have "  to have one syllable.  
Now, HA "corrects" this, I don't know why and how.  
 
As of which voice you use: AFAIK, the "name of the voice" is not a saved parameter on the staff. But the voice characteristics - including the singer's picture - is included in the HA .myr file.  
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André Baeck, de retour en Belgique après 12 ans passés dans le Gard.
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Re: How to make the aspirant "h" more realistic?  
« Reply #2 on: Apr 4th, 2021, 11:16am »
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As far I can remember, when I was in the school choir the music teacher advised me (as a Frenchman) to drop most of my aitches when singing as anyway that's the way everybody sang/spoke in the area (the Potteries)... That solved the problem ! When I Rome, do as...etc.
I've tried to add a bit of SAMPA [#&] which totally gets rid of the hissing, but as soon as "h" is added in the SAMPA sequence, we're back at the beginning. So, I guess the solution lies in the settings of the singer's voice, especially the 6 main formants used. But, there isn't much information about them in the manual... Another way could be to edit the "aspired H" fragment, but I must admit it's a matter of trial and error.
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Re: How to make the aspirant "h" more realistic?   Aspiration_controls.png
« Reply #3 on: Apr 4th, 2021, 11:19am »
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Hi André,
 
Originally, there was no slur; just the D as a dotted quarter-note with an un-hyphenated word. The rasping h is very evident.
 
(The slur seemed good for a real singer but sounded terrible in VS; that was why I was experimenting with velocity, volume and hyphen.)
 
I have only just found the adjustment (after 12 years!) in the complicated controls ...
I have no expertise in this; it might be easier to learn to fly a jetliner.
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La musique classique est ce dont vous attendez toujours qu'elle se transforme en mélodie
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Re: How to make the aspirant "h" more realistic?   Unrealistic_VS_aspirant_one_word.myr
« Reply #4 on: Apr 4th, 2021, 11:32pm »
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As suggested, using one word and the velocity raised to equal sounds  pretty reasonable on my set up.  
Curious.
 
The attachment is in older format but should work... I hope!
 
Or is this 'hissing' a fault in the latest version ?
« Last Edit: Apr 4th, 2021, 11:37pm by muddle » offline

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Re: How to make the aspirant "h" more realistic?  
« Reply #5 on: Apr 5th, 2021, 7:34am »
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Tony, would you show us the situation in which you first experienced the problem, without the changes you already made to try to fix it?
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Tony Deff
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Audio example of my aspirants   Unrealistic_VS_aspirant.mp3
« Reply #6 on: Apr 5th, 2021, 1:02pm »
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Hoping the attached MP3 is short enough to be attached ...  
 
Notice how the last two short words (ha-ha) do not sound as bad as the others.
« Last Edit: Apr 5th, 2021, 1:03pm by Tony Deff » offline

Anglophone, HA 64 Win.10, amateur composer.
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The .myr file that generated that audio.   Aspirant_test.myr
« Reply #7 on: Apr 5th, 2021, 1:10pm »
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Here is the .myr file that generated that audio.
 
(I believe the default singers settings are still at their default settings)
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Re: How to make the aspirant "h" more realistic?  
« Reply #8 on: Apr 5th, 2021, 3:56pm »
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Personally, I find, in the fragment Tony has provided us, that "have" sounds better when I delete the effect and make it one syllable.
 
My problem with that fragment lies not with the "h" sound there in any case, but with the unnaturalness of the voice as a whole.
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Re: How to make the aspirant "h" more realistic?  
« Reply #9 on: Apr 5th, 2021, 5:19pm »
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Tony, when I listen to the mp3, its horrible. Playing in HA gives a "haich" which is perhaps a bit too strong, but I don't find it offending, certainly that's the usual pronunciation in some regions.  
 
We should stress on WHY it's so different on your computer than on mine. Which is your exact HA and OS level?
 
Since WE run this with YOUR voice settings, I'm not expecting a problem in the voice by itself.  
 
But I suggest you test with a very common voice such as Classic/Tenor.
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Tony Deff
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Re: How to make the aspirant "h" more realistic?  
« Reply #10 on: Apr 5th, 2021, 6:00pm »
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on Apr 5th, 2021, 5:19pm, Andre_B wrote:
Tony, when I listen to the mp3, its horrible.

That is precisely why I have never joined a choir, but it is still impolite to say that my voice is horrible!  
 
Changing the singer in VS makes no difference to the horribleness.  
 
H.A. is at latest version 993e
Win 10 is up-to-date (build 19041)
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Re: How to make the aspirant "h" more realistic?  
« Reply #11 on: Apr 5th, 2021, 7:54pm »
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Same as mine. Problems which cannot be reproduced are the most difficult to catch.  
 
For the moment, I would exclude the audio hardware, since the problem is in the mp3.
 
Other people may see this in the coming days - it's a public holiday in France, though largely locked down.  
 
You might see if the problem reproduces in another Windows id; or after renaming ACAMPREF (some general user settings are there, not in the HA file .
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Re: How to make the aspirant "h" more realistic?   Digital_Effects_Setup_panels.png
« Reply #12 on: Apr 6th, 2021, 3:26pm »
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Good idea, but re-naming ACAMPREF did not do the trick.  
 
What I did notice is that when a new trial version of HA was effected by re-naming ACAMPREF, the  
Score > Edit digital global effects panel included a facility for Myriad HQ - even though HQ was disabled!  
 
When I first played with Myriad HQ, all of my scores sounded worse.
 
I noticed that there is no "Myriad reset" - the Get Default is what the user has previously set by Set Default.
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Anglophone, HA 64 Win.10, amateur composer.
La musique classique est ce dont vous attendez toujours qu'elle se transforme en mélodie
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